1 00:00:03,169 --> 00:00:02,389 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:04,249 --> 00:00:03,179 triangle 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:04,259 you know there's explanation for 4 00:00:07,309 --> 00:00:05,370 everything that occurred in the 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:07,319 Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't 6 00:00:13,190 --> 00:00:09,690 involve aliens at all it was completely 7 00:00:16,609 --> 00:00:13,200 silent it comes right over our head it's 8 00:00:18,260 --> 00:00:16,619 so toxic flying salsa really standing in 9 00:00:19,820 --> 00:00:18,270 the clearing he turned over to my father 10 00:00:25,269 --> 00:00:19,830 and held his hand and he looked in his 11 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:27,920 hello welcome to the show I'm Martin 12 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:29,820 Willis your host Michael local be 13 00:00:34,670 --> 00:00:31,320 joining us in a moment for the news 14 00:00:37,190 --> 00:00:34,680 today's podcast is number 65 and it's 15 00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:37,200 with Travis Walton I was around Travis 16 00:00:41,959 --> 00:00:39,540 all last weekend and we had some great 17 00:00:44,180 --> 00:00:41,969 conversations which brought me to think 18 00:00:46,940 --> 00:00:44,190 about something that no one had ever 19 00:00:49,069 --> 00:00:46,950 interviewed him about other topics other 20 00:00:53,569 --> 00:00:49,079 than the famous fire in the sky 21 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:53,579 abduction back in November of 1975 so we 22 00:00:58,580 --> 00:00:56,010 have a great interview coming up only 15 23 00:01:00,590 --> 00:00:58,590 minutes long or so it's a short one but 24 00:01:04,009 --> 00:01:00,600 it's fascinating and I know you're gonna 25 00:01:07,010 --> 00:01:04,019 enjoy it following the news but before 26 00:01:08,929 --> 00:01:07,020 Travis Walton we have a new China 27 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:08,939 correspondent that we'll be checking in 28 00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:11,490 with us oh maybe about once a month and 29 00:01:16,249 --> 00:01:14,100 he'll talk to us about what's going on 30 00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:16,259 there I'll talk a little bit more about 31 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:18,840 that and introduce him later on I will 32 00:01:23,149 --> 00:01:21,360 be attending the first New England UFO 33 00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:23,159 conference that will take place on 34 00:01:29,030 --> 00:01:26,340 Saturday October 26 that's in Leominster 35 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:29,040 Massachusetts if you can make it there 36 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:30,960 I'd love to hang out with you Stanton 37 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:33,210 Friedman peter robbins and a number of 38 00:01:37,039 --> 00:01:35,250 other great speakers are going to be 39 00:01:39,109 --> 00:01:37,049 there including robert Schroeder the 40 00:01:42,050 --> 00:01:39,119 scientists who we had on here perhaps a 41 00:01:44,660 --> 00:01:42,060 month or so ago so Michael how you doing 42 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:44,670 good how are you this week great what is 43 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:49,710 going on well first off the Vancouver 44 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:52,170 minor league baseball game sighting was 45 00:01:56,690 --> 00:01:54,570 a hoax the recent video shot of a 46 00:01:58,940 --> 00:01:56,700 strange object buzzing a Vancouver minor 47 00:02:02,240 --> 00:01:58,950 league baseball game has been revealed 48 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:02,250 to be a promotional stunt the nearby HR 49 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:04,680 Macmillan Space Center perpetrated the 50 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:06,390 hoax to promote upgrades to their 51 00:02:10,460 --> 00:02:08,700 planetarium the object seen and 52 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:10,470 photographed by not only baseball fans 53 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:12,450 but also others in the surrounding area 54 00:02:15,340 --> 00:02:13,130 was 55 00:02:17,710 --> 00:02:15,350 actually a 1 meter wide drone launched 56 00:02:20,650 --> 00:02:17,720 by the Space Center meant to attract 57 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:20,660 attention you could read more about it 58 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:22,730 in the link in our show notes as with 59 00:02:27,490 --> 00:02:25,070 all our stories yeah Michael I have 60 00:02:29,410 --> 00:02:27,500 issue with this I'm a little upset about 61 00:02:30,910 --> 00:02:29,420 it well first of all I want to say I was 62 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:30,920 on a radio show last night 63 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:34,160 and the person talking to me was talking 64 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:36,770 all about this sighting and had I known 65 00:02:40,450 --> 00:02:38,330 about it no I had not 66 00:02:42,610 --> 00:02:40,460 and sure enough I opened the news you 67 00:02:46,390 --> 00:02:42,620 wrote this morning and read that it was 68 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:46,400 a hoax and why would a planetarium hoax 69 00:02:52,510 --> 00:02:50,330 something like that I it's upsetting to 70 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:52,520 me well how do you feel about that 71 00:02:59,650 --> 00:02:57,050 you know I posted on our forums a couple 72 00:03:03,490 --> 00:02:59,660 months ago promotions done with drones 73 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:03,500 to make the Star Trek insignia appear 74 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:06,410 over London I thought I thought that was 75 00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:07,160 brilliant 76 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:11,380 I thought that was that was great this 77 00:03:17,020 --> 00:03:14,270 was really the worst kind of advertising 78 00:03:20,020 --> 00:03:17,030 I mean they were trying to make people 79 00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:20,030 think something was in in the sky that 80 00:03:27,070 --> 00:03:22,420 wasn't supposed to be there 81 00:03:29,770 --> 00:03:27,080 UFO aside I mean this is kind of the the 82 00:03:31,510 --> 00:03:29,780 problem with drones is that you know 83 00:03:33,850 --> 00:03:31,520 what if what if people are calling that 84 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:33,860 in which may be some did to say that 85 00:03:39,820 --> 00:03:36,290 there's something in the sky lanes over 86 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:39,830 Vancouver it's a real problem 87 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:42,620 it shows the many problems that are 88 00:03:49,870 --> 00:03:46,010 going to occur when drones are available 89 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:49,880 to a wide variety of people and 90 00:03:55,780 --> 00:03:52,010 businesses which is scheduled to happen 91 00:03:57,940 --> 00:03:55,790 I believe next year in America and it 92 00:04:00,340 --> 00:03:57,950 just for this to be a it's you know a 93 00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:00,350 Space Center a suppose an Institute of 94 00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:02,720 Science to to do something like this it 95 00:04:06,310 --> 00:04:04,220 just seems really intellectually 96 00:04:08,590 --> 00:04:06,320 dishonest on top of everything else I do 97 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:08,600 too and you read the comments under it 98 00:04:13,870 --> 00:04:12,050 and they there are people out there that 99 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:13,880 saying you know scientists don't believe 100 00:04:17,110 --> 00:04:15,650 why would you even do this and you know 101 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:17,120 there's quite a few comments to read 102 00:04:21,490 --> 00:04:19,250 under that if someone follows the link 103 00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:21,500 to that article anyway it pisses me off 104 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:24,800 so what else is going on new poll claims 105 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:26,610 48% of Americans will 106 00:04:31,939 --> 00:04:30,150 UFOs maybe aliens a recent online poll 107 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:31,949 conducted by The Huffington Post and 108 00:04:37,159 --> 00:04:34,620 YouGov found that 48% of Americans 109 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:37,169 believe that people may have actually 110 00:04:44,179 --> 00:04:41,250 seen UFOs under alien control the same 111 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:44,189 poll found that 61% of people have 112 00:04:48,469 --> 00:04:45,990 thought they had actually seen ghosts or 113 00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:48,479 knew someone who had the poll was 114 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:51,860 conducted using an opt-in online format 115 00:04:58,399 --> 00:04:55,770 and that's just important because it 116 00:05:01,279 --> 00:04:58,409 might not be quite as representative as 117 00:05:04,969 --> 00:05:01,289 they would like you to believe and in 118 00:05:08,659 --> 00:05:04,979 contrast the famous 1997 CNN time poll 119 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:08,669 found that 64% of Americans thought 120 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:10,650 aliens had actually contacted the earth 121 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:14,370 and that was almost 20 years ago it I 122 00:05:17,059 --> 00:05:15,810 find it very hard to believe we're going 123 00:05:20,149 --> 00:05:17,069 backwards what do you think about that 124 00:05:21,769 --> 00:05:20,159 yeah I really don't either with for one 125 00:05:24,529 --> 00:05:21,779 thing with all the science sets come 126 00:05:26,809 --> 00:05:24,539 forward on all the you know 127 00:05:29,209 --> 00:05:26,819 possibilities of extraterrestrial life 128 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:29,219 existing and I'm wondering why the heck 129 00:05:33,589 --> 00:05:30,960 they threw ghosts in the mix you know 130 00:05:35,269 --> 00:05:33,599 that's just that I don't know if that I 131 00:05:39,019 --> 00:05:35,279 have issues with a lot of things today I 132 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:39,029 guess I just like to mention in our 133 00:05:41,899 --> 00:05:40,680 links to the show notes not only is 134 00:05:44,570 --> 00:05:41,909 there a link to a story but there's 135 00:05:46,369 --> 00:05:44,580 actually a link to the raw pulled data 136 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:46,379 as well so people could see the 137 00:05:50,629 --> 00:05:48,150 demographic breakdowns of that if 138 00:05:53,269 --> 00:05:50,639 they're interested so I don't really 139 00:05:57,469 --> 00:05:53,279 think that there's less people believing 140 00:06:01,629 --> 00:05:57,479 that we have been visited than before 141 00:06:04,850 --> 00:06:01,639 what do you think about that I I just I 142 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:04,860 was shocked by that I didn't I didn't 143 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:10,800 think it was AI I was very surprised by 144 00:06:15,829 --> 00:06:12,449 let's put it that way that's why I went 145 00:06:18,350 --> 00:06:15,839 and dug back and found the the 97 CNN 146 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:18,360 time poll that was big news at the time 147 00:06:26,329 --> 00:06:23,580 you know and I think that I place a 148 00:06:28,909 --> 00:06:26,339 little bit more faith interest just just 149 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:28,919 because it's not an internet opt-in poll 150 00:06:35,589 --> 00:06:32,580 you know which which just does limit 151 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:35,599 your sampling it always does exactly 152 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:38,490 astrobiology magazine examines the Drake 153 00:06:40,460 --> 00:06:39,120 Equation 154 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:40,470 NASA's online 155 00:06:45,020 --> 00:06:42,570 astrobiology magazine recently examined 156 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:45,030 the famous Drake Equation interviewing 157 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:48,750 MIT exoplanet expert Sara Seager their 158 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:50,610 feature not only explains the equation 159 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:52,770 but Seager also explains the numbers 160 00:06:56,990 --> 00:06:55,170 that she uses personally to fill in the 161 00:06:58,730 --> 00:06:57,000 variables this is the link in the show 162 00:07:01,700 --> 00:06:58,740 notes to read the article and view the 163 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:01,710 connected video yeah it's most likely 164 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:04,260 that you know Drake was off just a 165 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:07,170 little bit on that one and I didn't get 166 00:07:11,150 --> 00:07:09,090 a chance I'm sorry I was a little busy 167 00:07:14,540 --> 00:07:11,160 to read over things today 168 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:14,550 what is her equations that she plunked 169 00:07:19,130 --> 00:07:16,710 in there well it's it's not I mean it's 170 00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:19,140 still the Drake Equation she just goes 171 00:07:24,410 --> 00:07:20,880 through her thought process for the for 172 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:24,420 the myriad of variables involved she's a 173 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:25,980 little bit conservative but it still 174 00:07:31,310 --> 00:07:29,070 gives us a real good chance to to have 175 00:07:34,250 --> 00:07:31,320 neighbors out there so it's the Drake 176 00:07:35,750 --> 00:07:34,260 Seager equation I guess well no it's 177 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:35,760 still the Drake Equation because the 178 00:07:41,570 --> 00:07:37,770 Drake Equation is entirely made up of 179 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:41,580 variables uu that's part of the process 180 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:43,650 why some people can quote the Drake 181 00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:46,290 Equation and it's you know just proof 182 00:07:50,030 --> 00:07:48,060 that it's unlikely there's another 183 00:07:52,970 --> 00:07:50,040 civilization while others can quote the 184 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:52,980 Drake civilization and you know it's 185 00:07:58,100 --> 00:07:56,520 proof that that there's a intergalactic 186 00:08:00,650 --> 00:07:58,110 parking lot behind the moon that we're 187 00:08:02,450 --> 00:08:00,660 not aware of um it's it's all in the 188 00:08:04,780 --> 00:08:02,460 variables you put in because she is an 189 00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:04,790 exoplanet expert who has been studying 190 00:08:10,430 --> 00:08:07,860 the planets is that we discover outside 191 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:10,440 of our solar system she has a you know 192 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:12,090 probably a little bit more valid 193 00:08:15,650 --> 00:08:13,710 viewpoint on at least some of the 194 00:08:20,390 --> 00:08:15,660 variables like how many would be in the 195 00:08:23,030 --> 00:08:20,400 Goldilocks zone etc I see x-files at 20 196 00:08:25,159 --> 00:08:23,040 this week marked the 20th anniversary of 197 00:08:28,460 --> 00:08:25,169 Fox's The X Files which premiered on 198 00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:28,470 September 10 1993 although the show is 199 00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:30,510 fictional it helped to create a surge of 200 00:08:35,180 --> 00:08:33,060 interest in the paranormal and UFOs it 201 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:35,190 also popularized the famous I want to 202 00:08:40,310 --> 00:08:37,650 believe poster and the truth is out 203 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:40,320 there slogan with an anniversary in a 204 00:08:44,450 --> 00:08:42,150 recent order for a pilot by amazon.com 205 00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:44,460 from the original x-files creator Chris 206 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:46,560 Carter there is renewed talk of a 207 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:48,870 possible third x-files feature film are 208 00:08:54,350 --> 00:08:51,810 even possibly a reboot were you a fan 209 00:08:56,329 --> 00:08:54,360 back in the day I did watch 210 00:08:58,900 --> 00:08:56,339 I wasn't glued to the show but I'd watch 211 00:09:01,429 --> 00:08:58,910 shows here and there and I watched the 212 00:09:06,319 --> 00:09:01,439 movie I can't remember which movie it 213 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:06,329 was perhaps the last one it wasn't that 214 00:09:10,639 --> 00:09:08,730 good it was okay then it was probably 215 00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:10,649 the second one yeah I guess it was the 216 00:09:16,460 --> 00:09:12,959 second one that's right and I just 217 00:09:18,139 --> 00:09:16,470 started rewatching on Netflix and you 218 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:18,149 know I never realized now that I've been 219 00:09:22,309 --> 00:09:19,319 really involved in this 220 00:09:24,769 --> 00:09:22,319 how many parallels there are two things 221 00:09:26,569 --> 00:09:24,779 that actually have been witnessed that 222 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:26,579 they actually throw in there in the show 223 00:09:32,059 --> 00:09:28,110 so it's pretty interesting to see that 224 00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:32,069 it really was a good show I try to watch 225 00:09:36,139 --> 00:09:33,480 it again a few years ago though and I 226 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:36,149 have to admit I just as much as I loved 227 00:09:43,429 --> 00:09:38,670 it 20 years ago three or four years ago 228 00:09:45,889 --> 00:09:43,439 it just bored me to know description I 229 00:09:48,319 --> 00:09:45,899 think I made it through half the first 230 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:48,329 season and and gave up you know I think 231 00:09:54,699 --> 00:09:51,360 it has to do with we almost have so much 232 00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:54,709 thrown at us that we become numb to 233 00:10:00,319 --> 00:09:57,839 sensationalism unless it's even more and 234 00:10:03,229 --> 00:10:00,329 more out there or something I I know 235 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:03,239 what you're talking about maybe I just 236 00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:04,410 think it was something about the style 237 00:10:08,329 --> 00:10:06,959 of the show I don't think it was it 238 00:10:10,789 --> 00:10:08,339 really is the subject or thing I just 239 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:10,799 think when I go back and watch it it's 240 00:10:17,299 --> 00:10:14,689 it's it's so dark it's so gray it's so 241 00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:17,309 it's I've actually find the show itself 242 00:10:21,079 --> 00:10:20,129 kind of hard to watch because I'm picky 243 00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:21,089 like that you know 244 00:10:24,499 --> 00:10:23,399 all right do duly noted no I'm not gonna 245 00:10:28,569 --> 00:10:24,509 go there again okay 246 00:10:31,340 --> 00:10:28,579 and finally putting you on the hot seat 247 00:10:32,929 --> 00:10:31,350 experiences speak conference the main 248 00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:32,939 Sun Journal covered the recent 249 00:10:37,429 --> 00:10:35,519 experience or speak event highlighting 250 00:10:39,229 --> 00:10:37,439 the experiences of Travis Walton and the 251 00:10:41,119 --> 00:10:39,239 men involved in the allagash incident 252 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:41,129 the paper also spoke with Stanton 253 00:10:45,049 --> 00:10:43,529 Friedman most important of all though 254 00:10:47,359 --> 00:10:45,059 was a brief conversation with our own 255 00:10:49,609 --> 00:10:47,369 Martin Willis so Martin what can you 256 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:49,619 tell us about the conference and why is 257 00:10:52,699 --> 00:10:50,850 it that I had to find this article 258 00:10:54,439 --> 00:10:52,709 myself during the weekly news search 259 00:10:56,749 --> 00:10:54,449 well you know you 260 00:10:59,059 --> 00:10:56,759 I hadn't even found it so you know the 261 00:11:01,340 --> 00:10:59,069 woman that interviewed me said she was 262 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:01,350 from up in Maine about another hundred 263 00:11:04,129 --> 00:11:02,970 miles so I figured it wouldn't even be 264 00:11:07,249 --> 00:11:04,139 out there I didn't even think it would 265 00:11:08,390 --> 00:11:07,259 be on the Internet so anyway yeah it was 266 00:11:09,950 --> 00:11:08,400 a great you can 267 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:09,960 rest assured you are not the first 268 00:11:14,890 --> 00:11:12,210 person who has said I didn't think it 269 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:14,900 would find its way to the Internet 270 00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:19,170 that's right it was a wonderful weekend 271 00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:22,320 Audrey Hugh ins put that on and she did 272 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:25,350 a fantastic job there was not a single 273 00:11:31,370 --> 00:11:27,810 glitch in the whole thing one of my 274 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:31,380 favorite parts was the QA panel on 275 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:33,810 Saturday night every speaker was up 276 00:11:38,540 --> 00:11:36,210 there and we threw questions at them and 277 00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:38,550 that was that was really exciting but 278 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:40,560 just to sit and talk with all these 279 00:11:46,940 --> 00:11:44,250 great people Stan Freedman and again I 280 00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:46,950 spoke with Travis Walton off the record 281 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:49,200 and there was a lot of really good 282 00:11:53,810 --> 00:11:51,510 conversation with all these iconic 283 00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:53,820 people there just other people you 284 00:11:57,170 --> 00:11:55,500 connect with at these symposiums I 285 00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,180 highly recommend them if you can get to 286 00:12:02,090 --> 00:12:00,000 one it was just real enjoyable to be 287 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:02,100 around people with the same interests 288 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:04,650 and also some people that I know from my 289 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:08,010 occupation and longtime friends came up 290 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:10,260 to listen to Travis and it was just a 291 00:12:13,850 --> 00:12:12,210 blast sitting there listening to them 292 00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:13,860 and they were real excited to meet him 293 00:12:17,450 --> 00:12:15,540 you know had their picture taken and all 294 00:12:20,450 --> 00:12:17,460 that it was a great weekend overall 295 00:12:22,390 --> 00:12:20,460 really enjoyed it good good that's good 296 00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:22,400 to hear I mean III think we should 297 00:12:27,260 --> 00:12:25,380 encourage all our listeners to get out 298 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:27,270 and support these kind of events if they 299 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:30,570 can yes and you know at one time it said 300 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:32,130 in that newspaper article that there was 301 00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:33,690 80 people well that may have been when 302 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:35,160 she was there but there was some times 303 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:37,080 when that place was just absolutely 304 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:39,930 packed with people and it's going to go 305 00:12:42,860 --> 00:12:41,100 on again next year 306 00:12:45,230 --> 00:12:42,870 and it was great for me because it's 307 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:45,240 only six miles away five point eight 308 00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:47,250 miles away from my door so that was 309 00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:49,560 really nice so we can all stay with you 310 00:12:55,340 --> 00:12:52,830 next year yeah awesome yeah yeah okay 311 00:12:57,830 --> 00:12:55,350 now thanks for the news but hold on for 312 00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:57,840 a minute because we have been wanting to 313 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:00,600 add an international point of view about 314 00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:03,510 this topic and indeed if UFOs are 315 00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:04,860 regularly seen all the way around the 316 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:07,230 other side of the world it tends to show 317 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,090 that it's a worldwide phenomenon don't 318 00:13:12,650 --> 00:13:10,560 you think so mark 319 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:12,660 symma joins us all the way from Beijing 320 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:15,810 welcome mark hi guys thank you for 321 00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:18,090 having me so mark what's going on in 322 00:13:25,850 --> 00:13:22,000 China well we we have all UFO fin 323 00:13:30,330 --> 00:13:25,860 as well so in in the Middle Kingdom 324 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:30,340 through the ages they are record of UFO 325 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:34,300 sightings and in recent years as you 326 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:36,370 have noted in end up in the podcast they 327 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:38,740 and I know that Michael is very much 328 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:43,330 fond of everything related to China and 329 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:46,770 they there has been some some quite 330 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:50,110 impressive sightings and I have been 331 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:53,230 here this is my second time in the last 332 00:13:59,100 --> 00:13:56,650 five years but I have been here for for 333 00:14:02,190 --> 00:13:59,110 two consecutive years now in teaching in 334 00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:02,200 Beijing and I think that if I have to 335 00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:08,350 pick one main event that is recurring 336 00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:11,800 over the last couple of years three 337 00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:16,480 years sightings above international 338 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:18,400 airports Chinese international airports 339 00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:19,900 and you know you have a lot of cities in 340 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:23,200 China I have 90 cities over 1 million 341 00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:25,630 people and that means a lot of airports 342 00:14:33,390 --> 00:14:30,760 and those events are significant enough 343 00:14:37,170 --> 00:14:33,400 for the for the traffic to be to be 344 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:37,180 stopped so the the air traffic is 345 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,610 diverted the airport is closed down is 346 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:42,160 shut down for a period of time it's very 347 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:44,350 disruptive and a lot of people see those 348 00:14:51,450 --> 00:14:48,250 those lines to subjects and take picture 349 00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:51,460 of them put them on on social media it's 350 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:53,860 printed in in in the press it's shown on 351 00:15:02,060 --> 00:14:56,770 TV and and it makes mix around so we 352 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:02,070 have a I think a very impressive 353 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:06,850 recurring UFO phenomena happening near 354 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:09,910 airports all over all over China and and 355 00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:14,530 from quite way back but let's say from 356 00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:17,790 2010 we have a very important event 357 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:21,040 above Hangzhou Airport and Hangzhou is 358 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:22,810 well-known to foreigners because a lot 359 00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:25,450 of people go there for for tourism it's 360 00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:29,220 one of the cute city's coastal cities 361 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:34,030 romantic city in in China and well the 362 00:15:39,299 --> 00:15:35,889 the airport got shot 363 00:15:44,239 --> 00:15:39,309 down there but it has been reported in a 364 00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:44,249 number of time in 2011 2012 as well 365 00:15:51,179 --> 00:15:48,480 above cities in Inner Mongolia as far as 366 00:15:54,689 --> 00:15:51,189 Chengdu in Shaanxi that the heartland of 367 00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:54,699 the country so a number of Airport have 368 00:16:02,309 --> 00:15:57,910 been affected by by those those large 369 00:16:04,289 --> 00:16:02,319 UFOs actually aren't there only three 370 00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:04,299 international airports in China aren't 371 00:16:08,579 --> 00:16:07,929 all the other airports only for internal 372 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:08,589 use 373 00:16:12,689 --> 00:16:11,169 I thought only Beijing and Shanghai had 374 00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:12,699 international airports and that's part 375 00:16:18,479 --> 00:16:15,759 of why maybe these don't stories don't 376 00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:18,489 get all the coverage worldwide that 377 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:20,980 because they don't affect international 378 00:16:24,179 --> 00:16:21,730 flights 379 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:24,189 well actually Hangzhou is an 380 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:26,350 international airport and shondo is an 381 00:16:31,259 --> 00:16:29,290 international airport and CMM is an 382 00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,269 international airport you have more but 383 00:16:36,539 --> 00:16:33,519 they are not as international as that 384 00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:36,549 the Guangzhou which is in the South in 385 00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:40,360 and Shanghai and Beijing towards the 386 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:42,040 North because the other Airport although 387 00:16:47,609 --> 00:16:44,110 the International Day they only carry 388 00:16:50,159 --> 00:16:47,619 you know they go to the you know across 389 00:16:52,979 --> 00:16:50,169 Russia or they go to Thailand or they go 390 00:16:55,439 --> 00:16:52,989 to Taiwan or they go to you you see what 391 00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,449 I mean they're not fully full-blown 392 00:17:00,329 --> 00:16:57,040 international but I call international 393 00:17:02,489 --> 00:17:00,339 they they go beyond China oh okay but 394 00:17:06,090 --> 00:17:02,499 but one of the things I've heard about 395 00:17:08,189 --> 00:17:06,100 these sightings is if they were causing 396 00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:08,199 the closure of airports why aren't they 397 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:10,990 affecting air flights so so these are 398 00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:12,490 still airports that even even though 399 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:13,809 they might be closing down they're not 400 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:16,329 they wouldn't necessarily be affecting 401 00:17:21,779 --> 00:17:19,049 the continental flight the the 402 00:17:24,029 --> 00:17:21,789 continental the airline not not at you 403 00:17:27,269 --> 00:17:24,039 know the the Delta flights the kind of 404 00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:27,279 big international carriers is that I see 405 00:17:31,289 --> 00:17:29,110 I see what you mean I think maybe the 406 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:31,299 show the answer for that this needs to 407 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:33,370 be to be checked more but I think it's 408 00:17:42,419 --> 00:17:38,529 because they were closed down for short 409 00:17:45,419 --> 00:17:42,429 time maybe sometime less than an hour so 410 00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:45,429 it during that hour the the plane would 411 00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:47,529 be diverted but if you are you know if 412 00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:48,620 it's a plane coming from 413 00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:53,270 States it has time to prepare so maybe 414 00:18:03,100 --> 00:17:57,200 when do Zevon happened there were no 415 00:18:06,159 --> 00:18:03,110 international you know planes scheduled 416 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:06,169 to land just at that moment the vast 417 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:09,650 majority of traffic still is Chinese 418 00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,289 domestic flights whatever they land in 419 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:14,720 domestic or international airports the 420 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:17,450 vast majority are the flight the the 421 00:18:23,950 --> 00:18:21,220 many many many flights between cities so 422 00:18:25,690 --> 00:18:23,960 maybe if you if you fly from Paris and 423 00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:25,700 you have an 11 hours flight it takes 424 00:18:32,889 --> 00:18:29,240 time to to reach to to Beijing and if 425 00:18:36,399 --> 00:18:32,899 the air a Baathists is disturbed for one 426 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:36,409 hour well maybe have time to to solve 427 00:18:41,919 --> 00:18:38,570 the problem before the flight is ready 428 00:18:45,639 --> 00:18:41,929 to land true enough yeah it's it's 15 429 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:45,649 from Chicago to Shang Hai so so yeah and 430 00:18:50,019 --> 00:18:47,289 that's something we should probably 431 00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:50,029 reinforce to the listeners because I 432 00:18:55,269 --> 00:18:52,309 think a lot of them really won't think 433 00:18:57,850 --> 00:18:55,279 of this but but China mainland China is 434 00:19:01,360 --> 00:18:57,860 a little bit larger than the continental 435 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:01,370 48 states of the United States 436 00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:03,770 so if our American listeners just think 437 00:19:09,639 --> 00:19:07,039 of all of the flights that go just 438 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:09,649 inside the United States you have a 439 00:19:15,399 --> 00:19:11,690 similar amount of air traffic in China 440 00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:15,409 sure because you have so many so you 441 00:19:21,070 --> 00:19:18,200 know so many cities above 1 million and 442 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:21,080 all those cities I have an airport so 443 00:19:26,289 --> 00:19:23,210 you have 90 cities above 1 million 444 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:26,299 people and you have many who are 10 445 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:28,130 million and more and then you have the 446 00:19:34,299 --> 00:19:31,130 the mega cities that are 25 35 million 447 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:34,309 people like charging so yeah a lot of 448 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:36,169 airports lot of traffic and it's 449 00:19:40,450 --> 00:19:38,390 starting to be a real problem between 450 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:40,460 the its they're competing for space with 451 00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,370 the military with the Air Force and the 452 00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:45,760 Chinese Air Force and the civilian 453 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:50,029 traffic now I've heard that China takes 454 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:52,010 these things really serious and they 455 00:19:56,139 --> 00:19:54,590 even have scientists that are on some 456 00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,149 type of board do you know anything about 457 00:20:00,840 --> 00:19:58,880 that well we we never know those things 458 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:00,850 directly because 459 00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:03,310 they are not shy about keeping many 460 00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:07,060 things secret but what we what we know 461 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:11,950 is that they review the cases and they 462 00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:15,250 are interested by it and it seems they 463 00:20:19,860 --> 00:20:18,220 ask a lot of questions to the the 464 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:19,870 Chinese we have for enthusiasm you know 465 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:23,380 those people who are leading those uf4 466 00:20:29,010 --> 00:20:26,010 organization in china and they have this 467 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:29,020 casual conversation between high-ranking 468 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:31,030 officer in the Air Force for example and 469 00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:33,730 those those leaders of those UFO 470 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:36,160 organizations it seems that really 471 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:38,410 genuinely trying to figure out what they 472 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:42,100 are are they and and they are quite my 473 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:44,170 surprise I don't think they have the 474 00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:45,970 impression gives it that they don't know 475 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:48,160 what it is and they is never the 476 00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:49,810 indication they think it is a spy plane 477 00:20:58,500 --> 00:20:53,950 or it is a you know an unknown weapon or 478 00:21:02,700 --> 00:20:58,510 a mystified rocket they they don't try 479 00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:02,710 to to hide the fact that they don't know 480 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:06,100 so you have the observatories that 481 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:09,010 release some statements so at the level 482 00:21:13,470 --> 00:21:10,750 of Observatory so you have a big 483 00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:13,480 observer space observatory around 484 00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:16,600 Beijing in the province of Hebei which 485 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:18,160 is all around Beijing and they and they 486 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:21,700 do really statement saying that they've 487 00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:23,290 looked into it and they could not 488 00:21:28,650 --> 00:21:25,480 explain the phenomena I think that's 489 00:21:31,170 --> 00:21:28,660 that's pretty that's good enough I do 490 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:31,180 too now we have recently seen some 491 00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:35,290 reports from the Indian military along 492 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:39,400 the sino-indian border about strange 493 00:21:45,210 --> 00:21:43,360 lights that they are concerned would be 494 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:45,220 some kind of Chinese aircraft or Chinese 495 00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:47,830 drones that they do not believe are 496 00:21:53,610 --> 00:21:51,580 actually any kind of conventional 497 00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:53,620 aircraft have you heard anything about 498 00:21:57,300 --> 00:21:55,240 that in China is that getting any 499 00:21:59,400 --> 00:21:57,310 attention there well what we what you 500 00:22:03,900 --> 00:21:59,410 have in the Chinese press are basically 501 00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:03,910 the Indian report print translated in 502 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:07,120 Chinese and printed in the official 503 00:22:12,450 --> 00:22:11,290 press here so they comment on those 504 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:12,460 report and 505 00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:15,250 what what have on the matter of drones 506 00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:18,760 and and special vehicles they the the 507 00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:21,670 storyline we have here is that the both 508 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:23,740 side would like to fly drones over each 509 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:25,690 other and they refrained from doing so 510 00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:29,770 very sensitive area in the in Malaya 511 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:32,260 between the two countries it was very 512 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:35,380 very tense only a few months ago when 513 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:37,510 they were even talk of you know clash 514 00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:40,210 and the prime minister of China had to 515 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:42,820 go to New Delhi to to smooth things on 516 00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:45,490 underwater on the question of the border 517 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:49,270 area so it's not joking matter it's very 518 00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:52,840 serious matter the the those two army 519 00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:54,760 were facing off in in the mountain of in 520 00:23:01,020 --> 00:22:58,270 Malaya so if it was a drawn I think the 521 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:01,030 Indian would have had the proof because 522 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:03,250 it's it's not anybody sitting there it's 523 00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:05,140 it's the it's the military with all 524 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:09,820 their gear and no one has been able to 525 00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:12,850 to prove that they were a vehicle they 526 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:15,040 were they were man-made so they are like 527 00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,600 it's in the sky and there's been the 528 00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:18,400 confusion about could there be some 529 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:23,760 bright stars that soldiers confuse with 530 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:26,650 with UFOs and it seems that maybe it 531 00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:28,870 happened for it you can explain that for 532 00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:32,560 some accounts but not all of them so it 533 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:35,260 I think the the story the the mystery 534 00:23:40,010 --> 00:23:37,510 remains really if if the Indians I could 535 00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:40,020 could have blamed the Chinese for flying 536 00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:43,780 lawful vehicles about above the border I 537 00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:46,120 think they would have done it I you know 538 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:49,480 this is a terrible story not terrible in 539 00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:52,690 a serious way but we were following for 540 00:24:00,660 --> 00:23:56,230 a while the the gentleman who claimed to 541 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:00,670 have an alien in his freezer that that 542 00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:02,410 he accidentally electrocuted while 543 00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:05,020 trying to kill rabbits with by hooking a 544 00:24:12,350 --> 00:24:07,300 car battery to a piece of fence who 545 00:24:15,870 --> 00:24:12,360 apparently got arrested for claiming on 546 00:24:18,270 --> 00:24:15,880 the Chinese social media that he had an 547 00:24:20,910 --> 00:24:18,280 alien in his freezer did you see any of 548 00:24:22,860 --> 00:24:20,920 that at all in China yes sir it was it 549 00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:22,870 was widely reported here and people 550 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:24,910 laugh about it and basically it was 551 00:24:28,919 --> 00:24:26,210 someone was 552 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:28,929 who was probably very lovely and wanted 553 00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:31,850 the world attention and he certainly did 554 00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:33,230 it and I think it's in the City of 555 00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:36,830 Shannon a coastal city facing Taiwan it 556 00:24:40,509 --> 00:24:38,600 also holds everybody said it was a whole 557 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:40,519 so so nobody actually believed it then 558 00:24:47,379 --> 00:24:44,570 no no III don't think the perpetrator 559 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:47,389 believed what he was saying either so it 560 00:24:54,190 --> 00:24:51,470 was it was a hoax now to hoax and to put 561 00:24:57,249 --> 00:24:54,200 a story on the Internet is a criminal 562 00:25:00,340 --> 00:24:57,259 offense in China and the regulation has 563 00:25:03,369 --> 00:25:00,350 changed even more recently so it's 564 00:25:06,609 --> 00:25:03,379 something which is very much discouraged 565 00:25:08,289 --> 00:25:06,619 because it can land you in jail so that 566 00:25:10,210 --> 00:25:08,299 maybe will clean up the the field 567 00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,220 actually for some reason that kind of 568 00:25:14,259 --> 00:25:12,320 appeals to me that that it's a criminal 569 00:25:16,029 --> 00:25:14,269 charge for a hoax can you imagine how 570 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,039 many things would be wiped off a u-tube 571 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:18,320 if that was so the planetarium would be 572 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:20,330 in jail the planetarium would be in 573 00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:23,600 trouble do you know what happened to him 574 00:25:27,489 --> 00:25:25,580 the last report we saw that was that he 575 00:25:30,249 --> 00:25:27,499 was arrested and we never heard about it 576 00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:30,259 again I don't know if he was kept I mean 577 00:25:34,869 --> 00:25:33,289 if he was let go I we don't know we 578 00:25:38,139 --> 00:25:34,879 don't know but he's been really killed 579 00:25:40,749 --> 00:25:38,149 and nobody cares basically what what I 580 00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:40,759 think is a more more interesting story 581 00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:45,039 is the is the old story of mr. mang in 582 00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:50,960 1994 who mr. mank drug war who claimed 583 00:25:56,859 --> 00:25:54,230 in June 94 to have been abducted while 584 00:26:00,909 --> 00:25:56,869 he was hiking in Heilongjiang Province 585 00:26:05,259 --> 00:26:00,919 in northeast of China and he says that 586 00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:05,269 he has met aliens they were they were 587 00:26:11,739 --> 00:26:09,350 very tall more a nine feet tall and they 588 00:26:15,070 --> 00:26:11,749 had him copulate on board spacecraft 589 00:26:16,899 --> 00:26:15,080 they showed him Jupiter and it was taken 590 00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:16,909 quite seriously at a time and because 591 00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:19,700 the for example the University of Honan 592 00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:24,080 made a thorough study of his case and 593 00:26:28,539 --> 00:26:25,460 they interviewed him and they brought 594 00:26:31,419 --> 00:26:28,549 him there and they conclude they had an 595 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:31,429 official conclusion that probably his 596 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,529 initial story was true and then the 597 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:35,840 everything that he said afterwards a 598 00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:38,540 recurring story of his abduction 599 00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:42,230 untrue so but they still we have a 600 00:26:45,910 --> 00:26:44,270 Chinese University of a department 601 00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:45,920 within within Chinese University that 602 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:50,270 seems to to say that yes mr. mank seems 603 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:52,970 to indeed have been abducted at least 604 00:26:57,700 --> 00:26:55,310 one time wow that's really interesting 605 00:26:59,740 --> 00:26:57,710 thank you so much mark we really 606 00:27:01,570 --> 00:26:59,750 appreciate your report and we'll be 607 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:01,580 checking back with you thanks for 608 00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:02,930 joining us this week it was great to 609 00:27:09,610 --> 00:27:06,920 talk with you yes yeah heard it earlier 610 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:09,620 next coming up is a tuned by Carrie 611 00:27:14,410 --> 00:27:12,170 Lloyd Whitehouse followed by the 612 00:28:40,370 --> 00:27:14,420 interview I had with Travis Walton over 613 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:43,700 okay I'm with Travis Walton and thanks 614 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:46,770 for joining me Travis good to be here we 615 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:49,049 had a lot of interesting conversations I 616 00:28:53,779 --> 00:28:52,440 thought over this weekend and I decided 617 00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:53,789 that I wanted to talk to you about 618 00:29:00,940 --> 00:28:56,820 everything except your incident that you 619 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:00,950 had is that gonna be a relief in a way I 620 00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:02,730 thought you had some really good 621 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:04,500 insights you would talk to you thought 622 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:05,970 there were two different types of 623 00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:08,910 abductions one like the one that 624 00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:11,760 happened to you and then other types can 625 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:13,380 you go into that little well you know 626 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:15,090 there might be multiple phenomena going 627 00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:17,970 on here because it does seem that there 628 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:19,860 might be more than two types you know 629 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:25,370 just the whole character and the the 630 00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:28,470 various traits that each of these types 631 00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:32,220 have in common they seem to to go where 632 00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:34,470 these various characteristics are 633 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:36,240 grouped together but there seem to be 634 00:29:42,409 --> 00:29:38,490 distinct from each other there was some 635 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:42,419 discussion last night about negative 636 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:44,820 versus positive you know how the 637 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:46,770 negative ones have all these certain 638 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:49,049 things in common and then and then the 639 00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:50,580 positive ones have certain things in 640 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:52,980 common and it's not like an overlap or a 641 00:29:58,580 --> 00:29:56,130 blend at all and that's kind of 642 00:30:02,539 --> 00:29:58,590 interesting I would say after listening 643 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:02,549 to a bunch of times that again if we 644 00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:04,110 don't want to focus on your situation 645 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:07,080 but that was more of a positive in a way 646 00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:10,049 because you were possibly healed yeah 647 00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,159 it's it's been a gradual dawning 648 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:16,799 realization with me that I'm finally 649 00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:19,980 realizing it that the my perception of 650 00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:23,190 his being so negative was really not 651 00:30:26,779 --> 00:30:25,080 really warranted by the facts of the 652 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:26,789 situation or more by the the 653 00:30:33,470 --> 00:30:30,770 circumstances yeah yeah I mean that 654 00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:33,480 thing you were zapped with may not have 655 00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:36,590 been intentional it's a possibility yeah 656 00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:40,049 not a beam that was fired at all just 657 00:30:44,110 --> 00:30:41,900 some sort of 658 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:44,120 a discharge a side-effect of the 659 00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:47,690 propulsion system yeah and you and I 660 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:50,270 talked a little bit about space travel 661 00:30:54,490 --> 00:30:52,850 and can you kind of go into your your 662 00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:54,500 side your you thought about that because 663 00:30:58,780 --> 00:30:56,750 you know the number one thing we always 664 00:31:00,850 --> 00:30:58,790 hear or I don't want to say the number 665 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:00,860 one thing but we hear it a lot is that 666 00:31:04,420 --> 00:31:02,570 they shouldn't be able to get here it's 667 00:31:07,930 --> 00:31:04,430 too far well yeah that's the number one 668 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:07,940 thing that the scientists are always 669 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:11,210 coming up with and they're always trying 670 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:16,090 to place the limitations on these 671 00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:20,330 advanced civilizations the limitations 672 00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:23,980 we find ourselves in and based on the 673 00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:27,020 again the limitations of our state of 674 00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:29,720 knowledge you know 100 years ago we 675 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:31,910 didn't have airplanes we barely even had 676 00:31:35,650 --> 00:31:34,850 radio and in a mere hundred years we've 677 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:35,660 come this far 678 00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,110 and these civilizations could be 679 00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:40,880 hundreds of thousands or millions of 680 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:44,150 years farther ahead of us than than that 681 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:47,230 so you can you just cannot put 682 00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:49,970 limitations on what they're capable of 683 00:31:55,390 --> 00:31:53,150 based on our understanding yeah it's 684 00:31:58,180 --> 00:31:55,400 it's absurd and it's a kind of an 685 00:32:01,600 --> 00:31:58,190 orthodoxy that just doesn't seem to go 686 00:32:04,660 --> 00:32:01,610 away with some scientists you know you 687 00:32:06,010 --> 00:32:04,670 can point to scientists from a hundred 688 00:32:09,940 --> 00:32:06,020 years ago or two hundred years ago 689 00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,950 making stark pronouncements about you 690 00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:11,600 know man could never travel faster than 691 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:14,960 60 miles an hour or man will never fly 692 00:32:19,510 --> 00:32:18,080 anything heavier than aircraft or man 693 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:19,520 will never go to the moon and these 694 00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:21,670 kinds of things were set by you know 695 00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:24,230 prominent scientists with all the 696 00:32:30,670 --> 00:32:27,950 authority of the state of knowledge of 697 00:32:34,330 --> 00:32:30,680 the day and you also said to me 698 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:34,340 basically science and scientists they 699 00:32:38,410 --> 00:32:36,170 have to be open-minded that they're 700 00:32:41,380 --> 00:32:38,420 going to be proven wrong right you know 701 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:41,390 it's it's not scientific it's it's 702 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:44,690 unscientific to ever have an orthodoxy 703 00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:47,510 science does not in true science does 704 00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:50,390 not engage in orthodoxies and when you 705 00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:52,460 do that's when you're 706 00:32:57,850 --> 00:32:54,350 putting on the blinders that's ignorant 707 00:33:01,480 --> 00:32:57,860 not science right right now a lot of 708 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:01,490 times you know I listen to you I've 709 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:03,860 listened to Kathleen Martin about you 710 00:33:11,970 --> 00:33:07,250 know Betty and Barney Hill last night I 711 00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:11,980 talked to the - Jim Weiner and Chuck 712 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:15,860 faults about the Allagash situation to 713 00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:16,250 me 714 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:18,710 these are all very credible situations 715 00:33:27,070 --> 00:33:21,770 now you also hear a lot of accounts that 716 00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:27,080 sound really far how are you able to be 717 00:33:31,810 --> 00:33:29,840 open-minded that they're possible or I 718 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:31,820 mean I got to tell you when I listen to 719 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:32,570 a lot of them 720 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,450 I cringe yeah you know some of the 721 00:33:39,910 --> 00:33:37,760 counts I hear do make me cringe and 722 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:39,920 that's meant that way from the beginning 723 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:43,730 but you know I've steadfastly resisted 724 00:33:51,270 --> 00:33:46,250 the temptation to pass judgment on these 725 00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:51,280 cases but when I say you know people are 726 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:54,110 people have an either/or attitude he's 727 00:33:57,310 --> 00:33:55,970 something easy either true and I believe 728 00:33:59,800 --> 00:33:57,320 it and if I don't believe it then it's 729 00:34:02,800 --> 00:33:59,810 not fun then it's not true but that's 730 00:34:05,650 --> 00:34:02,810 not the way the world really is you know 731 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:05,660 if a man is found not guilty that 732 00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:08,210 doesn't mean he's innocent he's just not 733 00:34:13,150 --> 00:34:11,750 guilty hmm if something if I say this is 734 00:34:16,270 --> 00:34:13,160 something that I don't believe that 735 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:16,280 doesn't mean that it's untrue it just 736 00:34:21,910 --> 00:34:18,020 means I don't put it in the category of 737 00:34:23,890 --> 00:34:21,920 true anything that's unproven you know 738 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:23,900 that's the mistake that the skeptics 739 00:34:31,150 --> 00:34:27,650 make they categorize everything that is 740 00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:31,160 not yet proven as disproven and that's 741 00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:35,270 that's again an ignorant attitude it's 742 00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:37,580 it's the other end of the spectrum this 743 00:34:41,770 --> 00:34:39,590 the skeptics making the same mistake 744 00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:41,780 that the gullible person makes the 745 00:34:45,490 --> 00:34:43,790 gullible person says if you can't prove 746 00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:45,500 this isn't true that means it is true 747 00:34:50,050 --> 00:34:47,150 and that's not true either 748 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:50,060 yeah well as one of the listeners to the 749 00:34:57,340 --> 00:34:53,510 show often says it's pseudo skepticism 750 00:35:00,100 --> 00:34:57,350 it's not real skepticism yeah and you 751 00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:00,110 know we could split hairs about words I 752 00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:01,430 think you know 753 00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:03,320 the way or their the way they're using 754 00:35:07,660 --> 00:35:05,390 the word skepticism it's it's a 755 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:07,670 derogatory term and they wear it like a 756 00:35:12,610 --> 00:35:11,210 proud banner that's right Society is 757 00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:12,620 saying I'm proud to be ignorant and 758 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:15,440 close-minded and yes like a previous 759 00:35:21,310 --> 00:35:17,810 interview this gentleman was telling me 760 00:35:23,530 --> 00:35:21,320 about the skeptic society representative 761 00:35:25,870 --> 00:35:23,540 coming to a situation had their own 762 00:35:29,110 --> 00:35:25,880 binder and the categories in the binder 763 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:29,120 and that's yeah little prepared notes oh 764 00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:32,510 talking anoints talking points to refute 765 00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:36,200 things and doesn't doesn't seem like an 766 00:35:42,220 --> 00:35:38,870 eject objective way to look at things 767 00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:42,230 does it now in your experience through 768 00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:45,950 all these years how much have skeptics 769 00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:47,840 or whatever you want to call them 770 00:35:53,650 --> 00:35:50,750 debunkers affected your life well you 771 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:53,660 know skeptics you know are responsible 772 00:36:00,210 --> 00:35:56,090 for a little tremendous amount a major 773 00:36:02,590 --> 00:36:00,220 portion of the of the kind of negative 774 00:36:04,270 --> 00:36:02,600 reaction that I've gotten everywhere 775 00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:04,280 even in the media that they're just 776 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:06,680 drawing on skeptics for their material 777 00:36:12,330 --> 00:36:09,710 and the skeptics have used a lot of very 778 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:12,340 deceptive kinds of statements and 779 00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:14,690 pretending to have science as their 780 00:36:19,420 --> 00:36:16,670 backing when they're not scientific at 781 00:36:22,060 --> 00:36:19,430 all going back to your situation last 782 00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:22,070 night when you and Steve Pierce did your 783 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:24,830 talk you showed a clip from Claudio 784 00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:27,530 Rivera with who was the actor that 785 00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:28,990 played Mike Rogers he was in 786 00:36:34,330 --> 00:36:31,780 Schwarzenegger Robert Patrick yes and 787 00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:34,340 you must have felt vindicated when he 788 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:37,540 says I totally believe him 789 00:36:45,370 --> 00:36:41,210 yeah you know not just Robert Patrick 790 00:36:47,790 --> 00:36:45,380 but James Garner said that he believes 791 00:36:51,370 --> 00:36:47,800 that believes it and a lot of very 792 00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:51,380 prominent people have expressed support 793 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:55,760 yeah you know I I never really say this 794 00:37:00,730 --> 00:36:57,290 much but I feel as though I have a 795 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:00,740 pretty good BS meter and you know like I 796 00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:03,170 never felt any anything with you and I 797 00:37:07,630 --> 00:37:05,030 mentioned to you the other day about my 798 00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:07,640 son listening to the podcasts and being 799 00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:11,480 a skeptic he totally believes that your 800 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:12,700 situation 801 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:15,130 was true and you know to me that that 802 00:37:18,089 --> 00:37:16,690 means a lot since you have this 803 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:18,099 opportunity to talk about other things 804 00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:19,810 besides your incident what would be 805 00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:21,910 something you'd want to talk about can 806 00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:25,150 you well you know I did a workshop here 807 00:37:31,980 --> 00:37:28,980 recently in which I got into the whole 808 00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:31,990 you know process of how to objectively 809 00:37:37,170 --> 00:37:34,720 analyze reports and how to separate the 810 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:37,180 good cases from the bad cases and kind 811 00:37:43,650 --> 00:37:41,650 of you know the rules of reason and I 812 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:43,660 really enjoyed that and I've got a 813 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:45,310 really good response from the people 814 00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:48,130 that attended and have you put that to 815 00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,550 use well I'm thinking of you know 816 00:37:57,569 --> 00:37:53,760 expanding on that I really like that 817 00:38:00,510 --> 00:37:57,579 that topic because you know after 38 818 00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:00,520 years of being attacked and refuting 819 00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:02,260 attacks I've learned a tremendous amount 820 00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:06,400 of on that topic I think I'm in a in a 821 00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:08,740 position of authority to speak about 822 00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,640 that now how many people contact you on 823 00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:14,800 a regular basis that want to talk to you 824 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:16,089 because they feel as though they've 825 00:38:22,290 --> 00:38:18,670 experienced something that you have or 826 00:38:24,359 --> 00:38:22,300 well I get I get emails every day you 827 00:38:25,770 --> 00:38:24,369 know from people who are reporting what 828 00:38:28,170 --> 00:38:25,780 they've experienced in their life and 829 00:38:32,359 --> 00:38:28,180 and you know it's it does seem that you 830 00:38:34,859 --> 00:38:32,369 know you know I can I can kind of 831 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:34,869 categorize those as we go along but 832 00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:38,710 there's you know I think legitimate 833 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:41,440 reports every day as well as something 834 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:43,450 that probably aren't now do you try to 835 00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:46,569 help these people and you know sometimes 836 00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:48,550 they actually come to me asking for help 837 00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:51,430 and it's kind of hard because you know 838 00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:54,400 there was nothing no support groups or 839 00:38:59,880 --> 00:38:57,250 anything back in the day when this 840 00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,890 happened so I was on my own and and the 841 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:01,839 methods I used to try to cope with it or 842 00:39:10,260 --> 00:39:04,930 not strategies that are recommended 843 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:10,270 you know denial compartmentalization and 844 00:39:14,850 --> 00:39:12,810 it worked for me in the long run but 845 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:14,860 probably the best thing for them to do 846 00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:17,290 is to turn to these support groups yeah 847 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:19,240 I think they're springing up like this 848 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:21,490 group that's here this weekend 849 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:23,890 yes starborn support starburns support 850 00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:26,560 yeah and that's gonna be growing and you 851 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:29,200 know just in the word itself support is 852 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:31,570 in the title of it and yeah and that's 853 00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:33,910 good because you know people do need a 854 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:38,950 place to express express it abductions 855 00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:41,050 was one of these things that I was on 856 00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:43,750 the total fence about and it was really 857 00:39:49,290 --> 00:39:46,510 hard for me to to swallow that so many 858 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:49,300 are happening do you believe that as 859 00:39:59,070 --> 00:39:53,710 many are happening as well you know 860 00:40:01,350 --> 00:39:59,080 because well skeptics make that make the 861 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:01,360 error of trying to say well if I can 862 00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,310 prove that any are false that means all 863 00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:05,680 are false but then on the other end are 864 00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:07,660 people who say since some are so 865 00:40:11,340 --> 00:40:09,820 definitely true this validates everyone 866 00:40:15,980 --> 00:40:11,350 who makes that you claim and I don't 867 00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:15,990 think that's true either yeah there are 868 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:18,760 real ones and there's some that I don't 869 00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:20,850 think are because you know there's 870 00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:24,400 misidentified meteors airplanes and 871 00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:28,000 satellites and extremely vivid dreams 872 00:40:32,250 --> 00:40:29,500 there's all kinds of things that people 873 00:40:35,609 --> 00:40:32,260 take to be an experience that aren't but 874 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:35,619 at the same time there's a tremendous 875 00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:39,850 amount that are legitimate reports and 876 00:40:44,670 --> 00:40:42,400 experiences now could you go into a 877 00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:44,680 little more about this this training or 878 00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:47,800 this conference you went to that 879 00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:51,700 categorizes well I didn't get specific 880 00:40:58,410 --> 00:40:55,980 so much as how it relates to actual 881 00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:58,420 specific cases and I you know I've 882 00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:00,400 always refused to do that you know 883 00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:01,990 people say well pass judgment on this 884 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:03,460 case tell me what you think of that case 885 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:06,640 they do that no I you know point to a 886 00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:08,290 bad one point to a good one see if I 887 00:41:13,230 --> 00:41:11,020 point to a good one them excluding ones 888 00:41:16,349 --> 00:41:13,240 and by implication saying they're not 889 00:41:18,180 --> 00:41:16,359 valid and the rule is if I haven't 890 00:41:21,150 --> 00:41:18,190 investigated the case I'm not in a 891 00:41:24,430 --> 00:41:21,160 position to comment on it 892 00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:24,440 but people ask you to comment often yeah 893 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:27,380 and I've only made one exception in all 894 00:41:35,380 --> 00:41:28,370 this time 895 00:41:37,180 --> 00:41:35,390 did it work well the Billy Meyer case oh 896 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:37,190 yes I don't know anything about the case 897 00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:38,450 I haven't researched the case so I 898 00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:40,430 wouldn't presume to pass judgement on 899 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:43,220 except Michael horn the American 900 00:41:48,460 --> 00:41:45,470 representative yes has made the flat-out 901 00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,470 pronouncement that Billy Meyer is the 902 00:41:52,210 --> 00:41:50,480 only one who has ever had any kind of 903 00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:52,220 contact or sighting and anyone who 904 00:41:58,450 --> 00:41:54,230 claims anything else is a fraud 905 00:42:00,940 --> 00:41:58,460 so without is going any farther than 906 00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:00,950 Michael horn if what Michael horn says 907 00:42:07,210 --> 00:42:04,150 is true than Billy Mayer is not for real 908 00:42:09,370 --> 00:42:07,220 but it may be that Michael horn is 909 00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:09,380 overstating the case I don't know but 910 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:11,720 it's pretty much the case it's only my 911 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:14,330 own personal knowledge of the reality of 912 00:42:20,410 --> 00:42:17,450 the phenomenon elsewhere that I can say 913 00:42:22,810 --> 00:42:20,420 with absolute certainty that them 914 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:22,820 claiming that no one has ever seen one 915 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:25,010 but Millie Mayer cannot be true yeah 916 00:42:31,150 --> 00:42:28,010 there's a lot of talk out there that 917 00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:31,160 Billy Mayer is you know not so credible 918 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:33,800 well you know I've heard things on both 919 00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:36,050 sides on that case and the case but just 920 00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:38,510 that one statement alone with my own 921 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:40,700 personal experience gives me a certainty 922 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:45,170 that at least Horne is if he's reporting 923 00:42:50,670 --> 00:42:46,850 accurately if Millie my really is 924 00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:50,680 claiming to be the only one yeah then 925 00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:53,720 then it's not a valid case is there 926 00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:56,150 anything like if you had a chance to 927 00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:58,130 tell people out there that you've never 928 00:43:01,660 --> 00:42:58,880 said before 929 00:43:05,710 --> 00:43:01,670 my main message with any of these cases 930 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:05,720 is always that before you pass judgment 931 00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:06,770 on anything 932 00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:10,640 get the facts first and you know what 933 00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:13,400 you take to be quote the facts can't be 934 00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,470 limited to just one side you get as much 935 00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:20,720 information from as many diverse sources 936 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:23,990 as possible original sources if possible 937 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:27,530 before you have an opinion and if you 938 00:43:32,030 --> 00:43:29,450 can't get the information withhold 939 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:32,040 judgment there's nothing wrong with that 940 00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:34,050 well I think I can't think of a better 941 00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:36,540 way to end this interview thank you so